RecSciPod S01E07 full transcript
Timestamps:
- 0:00 Intro
- 2:10 Science-themed “family feud” style game
- 16:39 Manspreading Tinder study
- 30:55 Goat helicopter study
- 42:34 What did you learn today, outro
Intro
Tirth: I also saw that it’s a little too dark and it’s a little too long.
Lu: Good God, Tirth. Welcome everyone to another episode of Recreational Science, the podcast where we explore creativity in science by examining some of the funniest, wackiest, and most provocative studies ever done. I’m Lu.
Tirth: And I’m Tirth.
Lu: Listeners, it’s a big, big world out there and we’re just tiny little specks about the size of Mickey Rooney. Though we don’t know how we got here, we’re an important part here. It’s a big universe and it’s ours. You know where that’s from Tirth?
Tirth: I do not. Is it from your big noggin?
Lu: Yes, but originally it’s from Yakko’s Universe.
Tirth: What?
Lu: Yakko’s Universe. You know Yakko?
Tirth: No.
Lu: Did you never watch the Animaniacs?
Tirth: I don’t even know what that is.
Lu: You don’t know what Animaniacs is?
Tirth: No.
Lu: It’s these three animals, I think they’re mice or rabbits. It’s unclear.
Tirth: Sounds like Paw Patrol.
Lu: It was like an old show on the WB Warner Brothers, which if any kids younger than 20 are listening, they’re not going to have any idea what that is.
Tirth: They have no idea what that is, man. Yeah.
Lu: Do they still exist? Does WB still, Warner Brothers, do they still exist as a studio?
Tirth: Yes, yes. They are still around.
Lu: They still make movies?
Tirth: They still make movies, they still make TV shows. They’re with, they merged with Discovery or whatever.
Lu: Interesting. Well, I guess back in the 90s and early 2000s, they had a TV channel.
Tirth: Yeah, I remember.
Lu: And one of the after school shows was called the Animaniacs.
Tirth: Somehow I missed it.
Lu: They lived in the Warner Brothers water tower.
Tirth: Wait, they don’t drown?
Lu: No. No, I think it was empty on the inside.
Tirth: That’s a very tall water tower. You can see it here in LA when you drive past in that area.
Lu: Look inside next time.
Tirth: Okay.
Lu: Yakko. Yakko is one of the Animaniacs.
Tirth: Okay, maybe I’ll get arrested.
Science-themed Family Feud
Lu: Tirth, you know, we got to stop jibber jabbering because there’s something very important I want to discuss.
Tirth: Alright.
Lu: Very important.
Tirth: Go ahead.
Lu: As you know, Tirth, people love coming up to me in the streets because, you know, I’m a very popular person, but I’m also very approachable. I’m respected, but approachable, which is…
Tirth: You’re a very nice guy.
Lu: It’s a very fine line I’m walking, respected and approachable.
Tirth: Agreed.
Lu: Lately, people have been coming up to me about the podcast more than anything. And they say they love the podcast. They say it’s really funny and they’re learning a lot. They say I sound great. They say my hair looks amazing. Also, they tell me-
Tirth: Did they say anything about me?
Lu: No. No, please, Tirth. Nothing good. Nothing I want to share right here. But they say my skin looks amazing. The acne is not that noticeable. In fact, it looks like it’s clearing quite nicely. And by the way, I really appreciate all those things that people say. I really want to encourage people to continue to come up to me and say those things. But recently, one person told me, kind of angrily told me, you know, he said, you and Tirth, you academic scientists, you guys sit in your ivory towers up in academia, you guys have no idea what the common man thinks of science. You guys talk on this podcast about stupid facts and use stupid jargon. You guys have no idea whether or not any of that appeals to the common man, to the lay public.
Tirth: Hey, hey, hold on, hold on. I don’t know if we talk about stupid facts and use stupid jargon.
Lu: Well, he pointed out that no one really needs to know that a group of flamingos is called a flamboyance. The common man, he said, just don’t care about stuff like that.
Tirth: Why is the common man listening to this podcast then?
Lu: Well, I like to think that this is an inclusive podcast.
Tirth: It is, and I think a common man may…
Lu: We welcome everyone to listen to this podcast. And I think what he’s saying is that by talking about stupid science, using stupid jargon, that we’re excluding a certain group of people.
Tirth: Which group?
Lu: The general public.
Tirth: I see. I thought we’re being more inclusive.
Lu: Well, apparently people don’t agree. And actually, I spent a lot of time thinking about what he said.
Tirth: Okay.
Lu: And I was thinking to myself, maybe he’s right. Maybe Tirth is completely out of touch with the common man.
Tirth: Wait, I thought he said both of us.
Lu: Maybe Tirth…No. Please, no, no, no. He’s clearly referring to you. Look, I care very much about the lay public.
Tirth: Okay.
Lu: I drive an electric car, Tirth.
Tirth: Yeah, you’re very environmentally friendly. You recycle, you compost, you bike to work.
Lu: Yeah, all these things. I care very much about society.
Tirth: Right.
Lu: Yeah, please. So, I came to the conclusion that you probably don’t know very much about the lay public. You probably don’t know very much about how the general public perceive science or think about science.
Tirth: That may be true, but I believe I’m a man of the people.
Lu: I’m sure you believe that.
Tirth: Yeah.
Lu: But is it true?
Tirth: In my mind, it is. I have no doubt.
Lu: You want to put it to the test?
Tirth: Yes.
Lu: Because I’ve developed a game for you.
Tirth: Okay.
Lu: It’s not a quiz, so don’t get nervous. I’m not going to grade you. It’s more of a game. Because I want to see, I want to help me understand how well you understand, how well the general public understands science.
Tirth: Okay. I’m never nervous. Never nervous. Bring it on.
Lu: Okay. So a lot of groups have surveyed the general public about their opinions on science, what they think of science, what they think of scientists. So I’m going to present those questions to you, and then I want you to guess the top answers provided by the general public.
Tirth: So it’s like family feud, except it’s just me, I have no family.
Lu: Please, let’s not get sued, okay? Let’s not get sued by Steve Harvey, okay? He’s a very litigious man, so I’ve heard.
Tirth: Is that right?
Lu: Yes, yes.
Tirth: We love you, Steve Harvey. Please don’t come after us.
Lu: Yeah, don’t, don’t, no, no.
Tirth: We mean well.
Lu: Yeah, very litigious. So I’m going to present these questions to you, okay? And you’re just going to guess the top answers provided by the general public.
Tirth: Should be easy for a man of the people like me.
Lu: First question. So thousands of people were asked..
Tirth: By the way, what’s the source? What is the source of all this?
Lu: Again, very legitimate sources. That’s where I get all my information.
Tirth: Right, right, sure.
Lu: The Pew Research Center, National Science Foundation, they conduct a lot of these surveys. Also Maxim magazine. So first question, thousands of people were asked the following question: what is the main gas found in the air we breathe? Top five answers are on the board. Please try to get them in order.
Tirth: I think people have to know that it has to be oxygen. It has to be the first answer. It’s oxygen.
Lu: Okay, oxygen is the number one answer.
Tirth: Yeah.
Lu: Is that the correct answer though Tirth?
Tirth: No, the correct answer is nitrogen.
Lu: Nitrogen is also up there, but it’s not the second answer.
Tirth: Okay. I would say carbon dioxide is probably the second most common answer people chose.
Lu: Very good.
Tirth: Yeah. So we had three out of five. I’m going to guess nitrogen is third. Is that what you said?
Lu: Yes.
Tirth: Okay, so we have oxygen, carbon dioxide, nitrogen. There’s two more left. What other gases do people think of? There’s helium, which is a pretty common gas. Methane, I’m guessing methane is number four.
Lu: No, I don’t think people really know methane.
Tirth: Not at all? No, okay. I thought with global warming and cows and…
Lu: No.
Tirth: Okay, okay. Carbon monoxide.
Lu: Nope.
Tirth: Wow.
Lu: Not up there. Two X’s.
Tirth: Okay. Hydrogen.
Lu: Yes, hydrogen is number four. And then you already said number five.
Tirth: Aha. Helium.
Lu: Yes, helium. That’s correct.
Tirth: Okay.
Lu: Good, good, good. Got that one.
Tirth: See? Man of the people.
Lu: Next question: thousands of people were asked, which travels faster, light or sound? Top three answers are on the board.
Tirth: Hold up. How is there top three answers? There’s only two choices.
Lu: Top three answers are on the board.
Tirth: Okay. I think the top answer still has to be light.
Lu: That’s correct.
Tirth: Yeah.
Lu: If it helps, the survey took place in 1989.
Tirth: No, I don’t think why it should make a difference.
Lu: It doesn’t really help. But maybe that explains why there are three answers.
Tirth: Okay. Sound is the second answer.
Lu: Sound is the second answer. Correct.
Tirth: And then they’re both the same, I guess, is the third answer.
Lu: Incorrect.
Tirth: Oh, okay. I don’t know, man. I’m really stumped.
Lu: Correct. Don’t know is the number three answer.
Tirth: That’s good. That’s really good. Wow. See? No Xs. I guess one X.
Lu: Yeah.
Tirth: Yeah. Killing it.
Lu: Next question. Thousands of people were asked, true or false? Lasers work by focusing sound waves. Top three answers on the board.
Tirth: Okay. I’m going to guess the top answer is false.
Lu: Correct. 41.8% of people said false.
Tirth: Which is the correct answer. So I think the second answer has to be true.
Lu: Incorrect. True is up there. True is one of the three answers. It’s not the number two.
Tirth: Okay. So don’t know. It’s don’t know.
Lu: Don’t know is number two. That’s correct.
Tirth: Wow. Okay.
Lu: Don’t know came in at 38%. True came in at 20%.
Tirth: So 41 for false, don’t know at 38. Oh, that’s not that far off.
Lu: It’s really not. More people got it wrong or don’t know than got it right.
Tirth: Okay.
Lu: Ready for the next one?
Tirth: Yeah.
Lu: Thousands of people were asked, are electrons smaller than atoms? Top three answers on the board.
Tirth: I’m sensing a pattern here, man. I’m sensing a pattern.
Lu: Yes.
Tirth: The correct answer is yes. I am going to guess that the top answer was also yes.
Lu: Incorrect. Yes is on the board, but it’s not the top answer.
Tirth: Okay. I think top answer was don’t know.
Lu: That’s correct. 45.3%.
Tirth: I should have paused a little bit.
Lu: This was also from a survey that took place in 1989.
Tirth: Okay. So then I guess no is one of them.
Lu: Yes.
Tirth: Yeah. I guess in which order? So let’s see. I don’t know is the most common answer. No, I think it’s the second answer.
Lu: No.
Tirth: Okay. All right.
Lu: Yes was the second answer at 30.9% and no was 23.5%.
Tirth: Okay.
Lu: Next question. Thousands of people are asked, what is the term that refers to how star positions affect people? Top four answers are on the board.
Tirth: Top four. Okay. I think this is going for astrology. Okay. So the top… Let me just, let me just think this out. I’m guessing out of the four answers, astrology has to be one of them. I am thinking astronomy probably is also one of them. So that’s two out of four. All right, let’s start. I think the top answer was astrology.
Lu: That’s correct. 73% of people said astrology. That’s correct.
Tirth: I think the second answer actually is astronomy.
Lu: That’s also correct. Yes. 22%. The other two are less than 5% each.
Tirth: Okay. So maybe I won’t get them. We’ll see. Sorry. Can you repeat the phrasing of the question again?
Lu: What is the term that refers to how star positions affect people?
Tirth: I’m going to guess psychiatry is one of them.
Lu: No, that’s a good guess. Good guess. These two are going to be really hard. You might have to use up all three of your strikes.
Tirth: Okay, okay. Gravity?
Lu: No, good guess. Let’s say there’s a term that’s used in weather forecasting, but if you don’t know what it means, you might think it has something to do with the stars.
Tirth: Oh, meteorology?
Lu: Yeah, that’s number four.
Tirth: Wow, okay.
Lu: And the other one, let’s say this survey took place in Medieval times. What’s the other scientific subject that people know about?
Tirth: Alchemy?
Lu: Yes, alchemy.
Tirth: That’s good. That’s really good.
Lu: Equally legitimate as astrology.
Tirth: Yes. Oh, that was good.
Lu: Next question. Thousands of people were asked, how long does it take for the earth to go around the sun? Top four answers are on the board.
Tirth: Okay. Well, the correct answer is basically one year. So it’s like 365 and some change number of days. And we added leap years. Four answers. I think people probably did guess 365 days, so that’s probably one of them. One of them. My guess also is that I don’t know is probably in there as well, because people don’t want to really stop and think about these things. I’m guessing one day is also an option. So that’s three out of four. And then people may make up just random numbers, maybe like seven days, no, no 30 days, 30 days. So let me put them in order. I’m going to give people credit. 365 days is the top answer.
Lu: One year. That’s correct. 55% of people said one year.
Tirth: The second common answer I think is I don’t know.
Lu: I don’t know is up there.
Tirth: Okay, one day is it up there?
Lu: One day is number two, 17%.
Tirth: So one more left, 30 days.
Lu: 30 days or one month is up there, but not number three.
Tirth: Okay, so I don’t know is number three then.
Lu: I don’t know is number three at 16% and then one month at 12%. Okay, very good. See, you’re getting the hang of this.
Tirth: I’m doing much better. Much better than the chat…Yeah. Man of the people.
Lu: The next two answers are multiple choice. This is a different format.
Tirth: Okay.
Lu: Which country had the highest percentage of people who correctly believe that the center of the earth is very hot? A, United States. B, Canada. C, China or D, India?
Tirth: I’m going to guess it’s either India or China. I’m going to go for my people, India.
Lu: Okay. Incorrect.
Tirth: Okay. China.
Lu: I’ll give you one more guess.
Tirth: China.
Lu: Incorrect. The answer is B, Canada.
Tirth: Okay. Okay. Canadians. Hey at least I knew it wasn’t going to be America.
Lu: Well, so Canada had 93% of people get this correct. The US had 86%. Pretty high.
Tirth: Wow That’s pretty high.
Lu: India, 57% and China, 47%.
Tirth: Okay.
Lu: Now, to be fair, I suspect this question was asked in English. So, that might explain why China and India did so poorly. Next question, what percent of Americans think that the sun revolves around the earth? Is it A, 15%? B, 28% or C, 34%?
Tirth: 28%.
Lu: That’s correct.
Tirth: Yeah.
Lu: How did you know that?
Tirth: I remember reading about this. It was something in the 20s.
Lu: Okay. Wow.
Tirth: Also, I’ve actually read this somewhere that people have a term for this. I forget the exact term. But basically, they’ve come up with this concept that if you go out and ask any question in America, you’re basically going to get about 20% of the population that will agree with it or go along with it.
Lu: I see.
Tirth: Yeah.
Lu: Interesting. All right. Good job, Tirth.
Tirth: Thank you.
Lu: You did pretty well. I say you did okay.
Tirth: Hey, I’m a certified man of the people, huh?
Lu: No, I’m not ready to declare that. Maybe say you’re a dog of the people.
Tirth: A dog?
Lu: A dog of the people. Yeah. Or a man of dogs. Man of dogs. Let’s say you’re a man of the dogs.
Tirth: I would be even more honored to be called a man of dogs than man of the people.
Lu: Oh, is that right?
Tirth: Yes. Dogs are pure souls, man. They’re pure souls.
Lu: Yeah. It’s true. They are. A bunch of idiots.
Tirth: Yeah. I heard that.
Lu: Okay. Tirth, should we move on to some real science?
Tirth: Yeah. The real business of this podcast.
Manspreading for more dates
Lu: Tirth, I have a question for you: Manspreading. Do you partake?
Tirth: Yes.
Lu: You do? You’re a man spreader.
Tirth: Okay. First of all, first of all, this is not something one needs to partake in, okay? This is not like an entree or a dessert on the buffet table. It’s just something that happens. It’s natural.
Lu: Okay. Why do you do it?
Tirth: I don’t consciously do it. I just do it because it’s-
Lu: So subconscious. It’s like an evolutionary thing, you think?
Tirth: Well, I don’t know if I would go that far, but I think it’s just the thing where it just gives me more room down there, you know?
Lu: Oh, it’s a comfort thing.
Tirth: Yeah. Do you manspread?
Lu: I do not, please. Please. I’m a man of the people. I drive an electric car. I’m very conscious about other people’s space.
Tirth: Maybe that explains why I manspread, because the dogs dogspread, and since I’m a man of the dogs…
Lu: I see. I see.
Tirth: You ever seen a dog sit on a couch?
Lu: Man of the dogs. They do spread, don’t they? That’s good.
Tirth: All right. Sorry. Let’s hear about the paper.
Lu: Okay. The paper I picked today actually says that manspreading is attractive to potential dates.
Tirth: Okay. I’m very skeptical, but I’ll let the data speak for itself, I guess.
Lu: Spoken like a true scientist.
Tirth: Yeah.
Lu: The title of the paper is “Dominant, open, non-verbal displays are attractive at zero acquaintance”
Tirth: Okay.
Lu: Zero acquaintance apparently just means first encounter.
Tirth: Dominant, non-verbal. Okay. Got it.
Lu: Dominant and open, non-verbal displays.
Tirth: Open, non-verbal displays. Okay, got it.
Lu: Manspreading. It’s dominant and open in many ways…Anyways, this was published in 2016 in the journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences…
Tirth: Great journal.
Lu:…or PNAS. I believe you like to pronounce it “P-nas”.
Tirth: Yeah. I mean, that’s how it’s supposed to be pronounced; it’s not just me liking it.
Lu: Yeah. Okay. So basically they wanted to figure out what non-verbal cues make people attracted to potential dates, potential mates. And they did three different studies. The first one is the field study where they videotaped a speed dating session and then graded the people on their non-verbal cues, on their non-verbal displays. So this speed dating session consisted of 144 speed dates. So pop quiz Tirth, how many people participated in this speed dating session?
Tirth: Hmm, 72. Wait, no, it could be any number because they take turns.
Lu: So there were 12 rounds, 24 people.
Tirth: Got it. Got it. Got it.
Lu: 12 men, 12 women…
Tirth: 12 times 12, right.
Lu: And here’s an interesting part right away: they gave a breakdown of the 24 participants by race. There were 4% Hispanic. So one person was Hispanic, right? Out of 24. 4% South Asian, one South Asian person. 15% Asian, four East Asians…
Tirth: Yeah.
Lu: …and then 65% white. 11% other or multiracial. If you’re keeping track at home, that’s 99%. The other 1% is African American.
Tirth: Wow. Okay.
Lu: But let me ask you, how does that work? 24 people, 1% is African American.
Tirth: That’s not even a full person.
Lu: That’s like a quarter of a person.
Tirth: Yeah.
Lu: How does that work? Multiracial is already included in the 11%. How do you get 1% out of 24?
Tirth: That doesn’t make any sense. It should be, these should be discrete numbers, discrete percentages.
Lu: So something right away, something’s up. So they scored the people on their posture. So one posture is like a man spreading posture. You have your legs spread out, you have your arms spread out, and then you have your back straight, head upright. They call that the expansive posture. Flip side of that is what they call a contractive posture. So expansive versus contractive. Contractive is just you have your arms tucked in, your leg tucked in, not spread out, your back’s maybe a little bit hunched. And then there are also other nonverbal cues, like laughing, smiling, head nodding. And what they found was the only nonverbal display that correlated with the likeliness of getting a second date was expansive posture, so manspreading. Meaning like laughing, smiling, none of that matters.
Tirth: None of that works.
Lu: You could be having the best date of your life, laughing the entire time. But if you’re not manspreading, you’re not getting a second date.
Tirth: No second date.
Lu: Exactly. They graded the posture from contractiveness to expansiveness on a seven-point scale.
Tirth: Okay.
Lu: It’s one to seven. With each increase by one point on that scale, the likelihood of getting a second date went up by 76%. Isn’t that crazy?
Tirth: That’s insane. That’s insane.
Lu: Yes. Well, but of course, you know, this is not a controlled experiment. It could be that the posture correlates with like personality right?
Tirth: Confidence, self-esteem…
Lu: Maybe more confident people. Yeah, more manspreading. If you’re hunched over and you have your arms tucked in, maybe you’re just more shy.
Tirth: Right.
Lu: So they did study number two. This is a dating app experiment. They called what they used a GPS based online dating application where you swipe through people to determine whether or not you like them. Basically Tinder.
Tirth: Tinder. Yeah. Or Grindr.
Lu: This is all heterosexual, which is another criticism of the paper. It’s very heteronormative.
Tirth: Yeah. Okay.
Lu: So for this Tinder study, they made six fake dating profiles on Tinder, three men and three women. They’re all white. The three men were all named Michael and the three women were all named Jessica. I don’t know if they specifically recruited Michaels and Jessicas or whether these are fake names.
Tirth: Well, they thought these were the most generic names, I don’t know.
Lu: I guess so. And for each of the six people, they created two sets of profiles. One, where all their pictures are expansive. They’re spreading. They’re man-spreading, spreading their arms, standing up tall, sitting up tall or whatever. And the other one is the contracted one, where they’re more tucked in, their arms are folded. So, the journal actually very helpfully included pictures of the profile photos they used as a figure. And I’m going to show that to you real quick.
Tirth: Yep.
Lu: So, panel A are the expansive profile photos for the man and the woman.
Tirth: Yeah.
Lu: So, these look fairly normal, right? I mean, they’re a little awkward, buy fairly normal.
Tirth: Okay, but no one should be putting pictures like this on Tinder, man.
Lu: They shouldn’t. They shouldn’t.
Tirth: They’re grocery shopping.
Lu: Yeah. There is one picture where they’re picking out a drink in what looks like the campus cafeteria. Actually, what I like is… So, that’s the third picture. In the fourth picture, you can see them sitting down next to that machine, the fridge where they grab the drinks from. But they don’t have a drink in their hands.
Tirth: No. And they look sad.
Lu: I don’t understand what happened there.
Tirth: I will say that the woman in the contractive posture, B, panel B, she almost looks like she wants to use the bathroom.
Lu: Yes. And so, the contractive pictures… now, I would still say the expansive pictures are okay.
Tirth: Yeah.
Lu: They’re not the weirdest pictures in the world.
Tirth: No.
Lu: Can’t say the same for the contractive pictures.
Tirth: No.
Lu: These are some pretty awkward pictures.
Tirth: Yes. Yes.
Lu: Look at the man in the second image in the contractive. He’s got his legs and his arms folded and crossed.
Tirth: Like this. Very unnatural.
Lu: Also, look, not to be pervy, but the woman in the expansive picture, the fourth one, is showing a little cleavage. But in the contractive one, no cleavage. So, confounding factor. Of course, I noticed this is because I’m a good scientist, not because I’m being pervy.
Tirth: That’s the only reason. Yeah.
Lu: Yeah. So, they showed these pictures to a lot of bunch of actual Tinder users. They actually noted that 17 of the male Tinder users who looked at the female pictures, female profiles, became suspicious because they thought that the profile pictures looks very similar between the three female profiles.
Tirth: Yeah.
Lu: So, they actually messaged the women and said, “hey, why do you have the exact same profile as another Jessica?” So, 17 of the men on tinder did that and they were removed from the analysis.
Tirth: Paying the price for their due diligence.
Lu: Yeah. I’m sure a lot of women noticed too on Tinder, they just didn’t care.
Tirth: Yeah, because they don’t say anything.
Lu: They’re just like, swipe left…
Tirth: Yeah, they don’t, right.
Lu:…creep, something’s wrong. Swiping left. So who knows how many women swiped left because of that. So what they actually found was the expansive profiles, the one with manspreading, were 27% more likely to be swiped right on.
Tirth: For both the man and the woman?
Lu: Yes, but it was more effective for the man than the woman. I’ll give you some details in a little bit. But first, I have a question for you: 1,500 women looked at these six profiles of the men. How many right swipes do you think they got?
Tirth: So I know, just having dabbled in dating discourse, dating app discourse, that it’s highly asymmetrical, okay? Men will swipe right way higher rates than women will. And this is like multiple folds higher. So I’m going to say out of 1,500 women who saw this, I’m going to guess, let’s see, 1% is what, 15? I’m going to say 5%. So let’s say like 75.
Lu: Close, but incorrect.
Tirth: Okay.
Lu: I’ll give another guess.
Tirth: 50.
Lu: Still too high. 30.
Tirth: Too high, 30. Wow.
Lu: 2%.
Tirth: So 2%. Okay. I should have stuck with my original.
Lu: So the six female profiles got 1,483 views, because they took out the 17.
Tirth: Right.
Lu: How many right swipes do you think they got?
Tirth: So let’s see. Let’s think about this. 50%…
Lu: By the way, these people, they’re moderately attractive.
Tirth: Yeah. I don’t think they’re hideous.
Tirth: So 50% is 750, I’m going to say 700.
Lu: Should have gone the other way. 790.
Tirth: Oh, okay. Wow. So more than 50%.
Lu: It’s pretty good. More than 50%. So for the men, they got 30 right swipes total. 26 of the 30 were on the manspreading profiles. That’s an over 6x difference, right? 26 versus 4.
Tirth: 4, yeah.
Lu: They increased their odds of getting swiped right by 6 times just by manspreading. Of the 790 right swipes on the female profiles, 53% were on the expansive profile, which is statistically significant. p=.02, but yeah, a lot less. So it’s much more effective for men. Next, they wanted to know why did people swipe right more on the expansive profiles. So they actually recruited 853 participants. And then showed them one of the profiles and then asked them to rate the profile picture on dominance. Basically, how dominant do they think these people are?
Tirth: Okay.
Lu: The participants were compensated 40 cents, 40 cents a piece.
Tirth: That’s nothing.
Lu: They did this through something called Amazon Mechanical Turk, which is like an online thing. So I think you can get away with paying them 40 cents.
Tirth: Yeah.
Lu: But basically, people voted the expansive profiles, the manspreading profiles as being more dominant for both men and women.
Tirth: Okay.
Lu: I have an alternate hypothesis.
Tirth: Which is what?
Lu: Which is when you manspread, we talked about how manspreading is a comfort thing, right?
Tirth: I see.
Lu: It’s not about the entire body being big maybe. Maybe it’s about a certain part of the body being big.
Tirth: I see.
Lu: So when you’re manspreading, it conveys that maybe, you know, you need the room and maybe that’s a cue that women pick up on and that’s…
Tirth: Well literally they’re like we do need a room…Oh, wait. So what you’re saying is this is basically like when a peacock or a male peacock spreads out its you know…
Lu: Very good. I think this should be the new definition of peacocking. Instead of like, you know, wearing flamboyant clothing or whatever, peacocking should refer to manspreading.
Tirth: Well the word cock is right there too. It’s right in there..we may have to cut that out.
Lu: But anyways the alternative hypothesis I presented, I think it would explain why women don’t benefit from manspreading as much as men, right? So I think it’s a valid hypothesis.
Tirth: Okay, yeah.
Lu: So, look listeners, I know what you guys came here for. You want dating advice right? Now I’m gonna give you some: when you go on dating apps, you want to use pictures of yourself looking big – that’s obvious. Like manspreading or doing jumping jacks, okay? Don’t use pictures of yourself with your head down or in fetal position, okay? Those are not going to be helpful. You writing this down Tirth?
Tirth: Yeah yeah yeah. Not that I need it, of course, you know. I’m very successful.
Lu: Yeah, that’s right. So Tirth, what are some other ways listeners can make themselves look big on Tinder?
Tirth: Um, well, listen, there’s a tried and tested method that’s worked for men for hundreds, if not thousands of years. That’s just something that I do myself religiously, uh, and frequently. I hit the gym. I don’t know what you’re thinking. I don’t know what you’re thinking there, but I’m talking about hitting the gym, you know?
Lu: It’s a good idea. Yeah. Bulk up.
Tirth: Yeah, bulk up. Great for the mind too. Mind and the body…
Lu: Okay, sure. Hasn’t worked for you, but okay. Now, I think we can learn from the animal kingdom. For instance, cats, when they want to look big, they arch their backs, right? And stand up on their toes. Can do the same. When male gorillas want to look big and exert dominance, they puff up their chest, they beat on their chest. They also kick sideways. And run sideways…
Tirth: Yeah. Yeah, so show up to the first date and run sideways to your table at the restaurant or the bar. And when calling out the waiter, just go, waiter! Pounding on your chest.
Lu: Exactly. All of that. Very useful.
Tirth: Should all work. Bulletproof advice.
Lu: Please listeners try these things out and get back to us.
Tirth: Yeah let us know please.
Lu: We want to hear from you. Email us. RecSciPod at gmail.com
Tirth: Or actually just walk up to Lu on the streets.
Lu: That too. Always welcomed. Or DM us your pictures on Instagram.
Tirth: We can rate them on a scale of 1 to 7.
Lu: We will rate them on the next episode.
Tirth: We will help you out.
Lu: All right Tirth that’s all I got for you.
Men (and helicopters) who stare at goats
Tirth: All right man, that was pretty fun. I have something that hopefully will also be fun for you. This is about one of my favorite animals Lu. I’m going to give you three guesses. Can you guess?
Lu: Oh. What your favorite animal is?
Tirth: Yeah. This is one of my favorites. Not my favorite, but it’s one of my favorite animals.
Lu: I want to say possum.
Tirth: No.
Lu: Is that one of your favorite animals?
Tirth: No. It’s not even top 10, man. Possums are a waste of time and space. Nuke them all.
Lu: No, please. Please. Very majestic animals. Raccoon.
Tirth: I see where you’re going with this. No.
Lu: Weasel.
Tirth: Wow. All very negative. Negative animals. No.
Lu: What family?
Tirth: I think they’re called ungulates.
Lu: Ungulates?
Tirth: Yes.
Lu: Like horses? Are those ungulates?
Tirth: Yeah. Horses are ungulates. It’s not about the horse. I’ll just tell you…
Lu: Cow…
Tirth: Close.
Lu: …because you’re Hindu. Should have guessed that one first, actually.
Tirth: It’s not the cow. No.
Lu: No? Oh, you’re going to be paying for that one.
Tirth: It’s close. This paper is about goats.
Lu: Oh, goats. Yes. I’m also a big fan of goats.
Tirth: Goats are very interesting animals, man. Like, within minutes of being born, they can start jumping, they can start eating. They have this, like, beautiful smile on their face. As they grow older, though, they can become quite the menace. They’ll eat anything and everything. They’ll make a mess, they’ll poop all over the place.
Lu: Oh, but they make some of the finest meat. Oh, they make good meat. Remember that place we used to go to in St. Louis?
Tirth: Yes, we did. Yeah.
Lu: They had the goat biryani.
Tirth: Yes, they did.
Lu: It was so good.
Tirth: It was good. I did feel bad about eating it, though.
Lu: No, no, no, it’s delicious.
Tirth: Yeah, going back to your previous paper, but…
Lu: Wait, you’re saying you like goats, not for their meat.
Tirth: No, I just like goats, period.
Lu: Okay, I see.
Tirth: Yeah. I mean, I like goat meat too, but I like goats as animals.
Lu: Okay.
Tirth: Anyway, this paper, I’m going to read you the title, okay? “Physiological and behavioral reactions elicited by simulated and real life visual and acoustic helicopter stimuli in dairy goats”.
Lu: What? You’re going to have to break that down for me.
Tirth: I know, I know. Let’s break it down, okay? Physiological and behavioral reactions, okay? So how are goats behaving physiologically and behaviorally? Okay?
Lu: Okay.
Tirth: Elicited by simulated and real life visual and acoustic helicopter stimuli. So they’ve simulated videos of helicopters and helicopter noises and actually had helicopters fly over goats and then monitor their behavior in dairy goats, okay? This paper was published in the journal BMC Veterinary Research.
Lu: Oh, it’s a good journal.
Tirth: Great journal, great journal. And this was published in the year 2011.
Lu: Okay. Good year.
Tirth: Great year. Great year. And all the authors are from the Netherlands. Great country.
Lu: Ah, yes, yes. Good country…
Tirth: And the study, the study was, I think…
Lu: Didn’t even know they had goats in the Netherlands.
Tirth: They have goats in the Netherlands. They also have helicopters. The study was at least partially, maybe fully funded by the Netherlands Air Force. I’m serious. It’s right there.
Lu: Because they provided the helicopters.
Tirth: Yes, yes.
Lu: Okay.
Tirth: Okay. So I’ll set up the premise for you, okay? So basically, they’re talking about how in parts of the Netherlands, they have a lot of goats out and about, not just goats, but other farm animals too. Anyway, they’re saying that they’ve noticed anecdotally at least, that loud noises like tractors and helicopters flying overhead can startle them and alter their behavior.
Lu: Okay. Sure. I believe that.
Tirth: Yeah. They wanted to study if they can quantify this. And if so, if they found that there were big behavior changes in goats that were maybe harmful to them, they can maybe not fly helicopters so much over them, you know, and maybe alter their routes.
Lu: So it might affect like milk production from the goats.
Tirth: Yeah. Or just like goat mating or whatever, you know.
Lu: I see.
Tirth: So they set about to like quantify all of this in a very rigorous way. So one of the ways that, you know, as they mentioned, physiological changes in goats. So they measured cortisol. And do you want to explain to our listeners what cortisol is?
Lu: Cortisol is a hormone. It’s released by the thyroid?
Tirth: No, no. The adrenals.
Lu: The adrenals, right.
Tirth: Yeah.
Lu: Which sit atop the kidneys. They’re released in response to stress.
Tirth: Yeah.
Lu: And they have a bunch of physiological functions.
Tirth: So basically high cortisol is thought to be a marker of high stress. They also measured heart rate.
Lu: Okay.
Tirth: Once again, higher heart rate being a marker of high stress.
Lu: Okay. Did they get an EKG?
Tirth: They did not. I think they had a monitor on the goats.
Lu: Oh, that’s pretty good.
Tirth: Yeah. Even better. The other important part of this experiment is the first half of the experiment, where they just showed them simulated stimuli. They had it all done indoors. So they brought over five goats that are normally living on a farm somewhere. They brought them to a center where they had them in like indoor pens.
Lu: Okay.
Tirth: They acclimated them. And then they started – they had a giant screen in their pens – and they started flashing images of helicopters, sounds of helicopters, and also images and sounds of tractors, three minutes at a time, multiple times a day, over like five days.
Lu: Oh my god.
Tirth: And then like I said, they had the heart rate monitor. They also constantly collect the saliva to measure cortisol. There’s a lot of measurements. Salivary cortisol, okay?
Lu: Salivary, okay, morning? AM or PM cortisol?
Tirth: All day.
Lu: Wow. Good, good.
Tirth: There’s a… they have a whole table that they started collecting at 7:30. That was the baseline AM in the morning and they kept going till like 3:15.
Lu: …because cortisol level is varied throughout the day.
Tirth: Yeah, exactly.
Lu: They accounted for that. Very good.
Tirth: So they accounted for that. Okay. So then this was the indoor portion. Then they’re like, okay, let’s try out the real deal, okay? So they moved the goats outdoors. They let them acclimate I think for a couple of days and then, they did two fly-bys.
Lu: Same goats?
Tirth: Yeah, same goats.
Lu: Okay.
Tirth: And then they flew helicopters over them twice.
Lu: How close?
Tirth: 50 meters.
Lu: 50 meters. That’s pretty close.
Tirth: That’s a very low fly-by. And if it matters, because I like helicopters, the videos were of the Apache helicopters. These are American helicopters. And then the fly-overs were done by Chinooks.
Lu: Good, good, good. Very intimidating helicopters.
Tirth: They also record that when they were doing the simulator, the video, the peak noise level was 90 decibels. That’s pretty high, okay?
Lu: And for reference, what’s the decibel level of a rock concert? Like over 100?
Tirth: Like 110, 130. Yeah. A loud restaurant can be 110.
Lu: 130, okay. This is very loud.
Tirth: This is pretty loud. Yeah. And then the actual fly-by was like 100 decibels. So based on the measurements, what do you think they found? And before you say anything, I think the real answer may surprise you.
Lu: Well, okay. So one of my criticisms is that in the first experiment, in both experiments actually, what they should have done is strap the goats to like a chair, strap them down by the arms and the legs…
Tirth: Clockwork Orange.
Lu: …held their eyes open with pins and make them stare at the screen.
Tirth: It’s Clockwork Orange basically.
Lu: Yes. I think they should have done that.
Tirth: Diabolical but effective.
Lu: If they didn’t do that, I mean the goats could have just closed their eyes, could have just, you know, went to sleep or whatever. So maybe they didn’t find that big of a change in cortisol and heart rate.
Tirth: That’s exactly right. They found no difference in cortisol or heart rate. Indoors or outdoors.
Lu: Oh, either case. The goats don’t care.
Tirth: But I’ll say this, behaviorally, they saw some changes, okay? Which they weren’t able to quantify this. They did notice.
Lu: The goats looked up…
Tirth: Yeah, the goats looked up. The goats looked up. Both indoors and outdoors.
Lu: They looked up. Well, that at least assures you that…
Tirth: It’s the base level. Base level for sentience.
Lu: They noticed something. These were not deaf and blind goats. Okay. That’s an important control.
Tirth: Yes then they also said, some of the goats ran. Three out of five goats, I think, ran. One of them tried to escape and got injured. That’s so sad.
Lu: Wait, they ran, but their heart rate didn’t go up.
Tirth: No, I don’t…I mean, I think it’s just the variability is too high, you know?
Lu: Okay. Okay.
Tirth: So anyway, their conclusion basically is that, well, maybe we weren’t powered enough. So, you know, there’s this concept of statistical power. You have to do a power analysis, which is – very briefly for listeners – when you’re trying to do experiments, you anticipate a certain effect size. You’re meaning like, okay, I expect to find 20% difference. I expect that my data will have this much noise and variability. So you count backwards and you say, how many samples will I need? So how many animals will I need? Or how many humans will I need? So one of their hypotheses is that the smaller the difference, the higher the sample size you need. Or higher the noise, the higher the sample size you need. So as you already pointed out, cortisol level changes during the day. And even though they were sampling during the day, they’re like, maybe it’s still too variable, so that they would have needed 10 goats to measure a difference of 150% in cortisol from baseline. And they’re saying the same for heart rates, they would have needed like 6 goats to measure a difference of 120%.
Lu: Okay.
Tirth: So that’s one thing they say. And then they say, well, when they were running, it showed us that there’s fear and anxiety in goats, but we weren’t able to quantify.
Lu: We weren’t able to quantify it.
Tirth: Yeah.
Lu: Well, what they needed really is a positive control, I think.
Tirth: So what could have been a good positive control?
Lu: They could have shaved a goat and seen its response.
Tirth: Or they could have had a mechanical tiger.
Lu: Probably get the heart…Yeah. Like a fake predator.
Tirth: Yeah. They should have a fake predator go by. Like put a mechanical tiger on the rails. But what’s interesting is I looked at the references that they cited in the paper.
Lu: Oh.
Tirth: And I’m just going to read the titles, okay? And then maybe talk about them briefly. “Controlling feral goats by shooting from helicopters with and without the assistance of ground-based spotters”.
Lu: Is this a New Zealand paper?
Tirth: It’s from Australia.
Lu: Australia. I’ve read this paper. I read this paper in college. Now, do they have something? Do you have the paper pulled up? Do they have something called the Judas goat?
Tirth: Not, they don’t mention that in the… Hold on. Let me pull up the actual paper. I didn’t know you’d read this already. That’s crazy.
Lu: Oh, please. Please. I was an ecology major.
Tirth: I don’t have the full text here.
Lu: Okay.
Tirth: I mean, the Judas goat is a popular concept, right? They like leave a goat out, right? As bait, I think.
Lu: Yeah. In the study I’m thinking about, they trained a goat called the Judas goat to lead other goats to a trap they set so that they can capture all of them.
Tirth: No, not here. They’re just saying that if you’re shooting from helicopters versus using spotters in the ground or not, can you like sample all the goats?
Lu: Without implementation of a Judas goat. Okay.
Tirth: Yeah. So it’s just a bunch of guys in helicopters shooting at goats.
Lu: I see.
Tirth: Anyway, that’s that. You have any other thoughts on the study?
Lu: Do they test milk production?
Tirth: No.
Lu: Okay.
Tirth: That’s something they could have done. I like that idea because they are dairy goats.
Lu: No more thoughts for me.
Tirth: Okay. All right.
What did you learn today?
Lu: All right, guys, that brings us to the end of another episode of Recreational Science. Tirth, what did you learn today?
Tirth: I learned today that if I am single and I’m looking for love, I should just be part of a research lab that will set up a Tinder profile for me.
Lu: And name you Michael.
Tirth: Yeah, name me Michael. Or Jessica.
Lu: Oh, yeah. All right.
Tirth: What did you learn today?
Lu: I learned that goats are not afraid of the Dutch Air Force. And frankly, neither am I.
Tirth: Strong words, brave, brave words.
Lu: Come at me.
Tirth: Open challenge. Yeah.
Lu: All right, guys, thanks for listening to this episode of Recreational Science.
Tirth: And listeners, if you like listening to our podcast, please give us five stars on your favorite platform.
Lu: Yeah, that will help us out a lot. All right, guys, see you later.
