RecSciPod S01E21 full transcript
Timestamps:
- 0:00 Intro
- 0:55 Dave talk
- 5:27 Historic science gaffes quiz
- 19:22 Chimp butt study
- 36:49 Clown studies
- 50:29 What did you learn today, outro
Intro
Lu: Ay dawg, what movies have you seen lately? Welcome everybody to another episode of Recreational Science, the podcast where we explore creativity in science by examining some of the funniest, wackiest, and most provocative studies ever done. I’m Lu.
Tirth: And I’m Tirth. Listeners, this is the second episode of this new year. Please join us, two well-rested scientists, as we discuss well-rested science.
Lu: What does that mean? Well-rested science?
Tirth: Yeah, it means it has had time to breathe, percolate, you know?
Lu: Not urgent?
Tirth: Yeah, yeah. One could say that.
Lu: Unimportant? Which I take offense to. I only pick very important studies.
Tirth: Not my words, your words.
Dave talk
Lu: Tirth, today, why don’t we do a fan favorite segment? Dave Talk.
Tirth: Oh, nice.
Lu: Fan favorite.
Tirth: Yes.
Lu: For new listeners, this is where Tirth and I discuss our thesis advisors from grad school, both of whom are named Dave.
Tirth: That’s right. It’s the tale of two Daves, yes.
Lu: The tale of two Daves. Well, Tirth, I actually saw your Dave a couple of days ago.
Tirth: No, you didn’t.
Lu: Yeah. He visited Stanford.
Tirth: He did?
Lu: He was giving a talk to like our Alzheimer’s Knight Research Disease Center, whatever.
Tirth: ADRC.
Lu: Yeah, yeah. Alzheimer’s Knight Disease Research Center.
Tirth: There’s no Knight. What’s the Knight from?
Lu: I don’t know. They’re the funders.
Tirth: At WashU there is. Not at Stanford…
Lu: At Stanford, it’s also the Knight.
Tirth: No, it’s not.
Lu: I’m not kidding, go look it up.
Tirth: So what is that? A franchise? Like a McDonald’s?
Lu: Yeah. It’s the Knight Alzheimer’s Disease Center Research. What is it?
Tirth: Well, at WashU, it’s called the Knight Alzheimer’s Disease Research Center, Knight ADRC.
Lu: Yeah, yeah. It’s called the same thing here. I just don’t know what it’s called because, you know, neuroscience, it’s pretty boring as you know.
Tirth: I mean, listen, I’m surprised you even went to this talk.
Lu: Oh, well, hold on. Hold on a second. I didn’t go to the talk because it’s neuroscience…
Tirth: Yeah exactly, so where did you see him?
Lu: And as you know, it’s pretty stupid. Pretty stupid, neuroscience. You agree?
Tirth: Disagree. No.
Lu: So after his talk, my department chair, who also does Alzheimer’s and neurodegeneration research, invited him to visit our department.
Tirth: That’s right. We’ve talked about this.
Lu: That’s where I got to see him.
Tirth: Okay.
Lu: First of all, I was starstruck. Tirth’s boss. Wow.
Tirth: You were? Did you get his autograph?
Lu: Just one person once removed from Tirth himself.
Tirth: That’s right.
Lu: Amazing. Anyways, I went up to him and I told him I enjoyed his talk, which I was being polite. It’s neuroscience.
Tirth: You weren’t even there.
Lu: Right. Right. And honestly, I didn’t know if he was going to recognize me from the Instagram clips, because as you’ve mentioned, he watches them.
Tirth: He watches them. He likes them.
Lu: But then he was like, “hey, man, love the podcast.”
Tirth: Uh-huh, go on.
Lu: “I listen to every episode at least three times…”
Tirth: Wow, super fan.
Lu: “As I think all of your listeners should.” He said all of this.
Tirth: Multiple listens, please. Yes.
Lu: He also said, you know, I’m very sophisticated. Very classy.
Tirth: Uh-huh. I see.
Lu: But also down to earth and humble at the same time, which is very difficult to pull off. But he says I do it effortlessly.
Tirth: It’s like you’re walking a tightrope.
Lu: Exactly. That’s what he said, in fact. That’s exactly what he said.
Tirth: Well you know where I get it from, the expression.
Lu: Wow. He also, you know, has some comments, some suggestions for you.
Tirth: Oh, he did. What did he say?
Lu: He said he really wishes you would, you know, adjust your camera angle a little bit better, adjust your lighting, you know, clean your camera lens.
Tirth: Hold up, he said this?
Lu: From the Instagram clips, yeah. He says when he’s watching the clips, he really wants to tell you to fix your camera. Also, stop banging on your microphone when you’re talking. It’s really difficult to remove in the editing, you know.
Tirth: Oh he said all, oh wow. Dave’s a man of many talents. I didn’t realize he knew.
Lu: He really is. I’m very impressed by your Dave.
Tirth: I didn’t realize he knew so much.
Lu: And he said, please, that you should write all of this down because he assumed you probably were not going to write any of this down, but he wants you to remember for the future, so Lu doesn’t have to tell you every single episode.
Tirth: Can you say all of that again? Let me grab a pen. Can you say all of that again?
Lu: Please write all of this down, Tirth. It’s the camera angle, the camera lighting, clean your camera lens, and to stop hitting the microphone.
Tirth: Oh, hitting the microphone. Okay. Got it.
Lu: When you talk.
Tirth: Very important.
Lu: And then he said that he really wishes… you know, we talk about really interesting scientific studies.
Tirth: We try to.
Lu: We talk about successful scientific studies.
Tirth: We try to.
Lu: Studies that really make science sound like wins after wins. But he said, science is not perfect. Sometimes, scientists make mistakes.
Tirth: Oh, yeah.
Lu: Which is an important part of science. Because science is a self-correcting entity. We check each other’s work. Science, and this is a direct quote from Dave, “Science checks itself before it wrecks itself.”
Tirth: Wow.
Lu: Yeah. Dave said this.
Tirth: And Dave said this? Dave said this?
Lu: Direct quote, yeah, he did.
Tirth: Incredible.
Lu: You agree?
Tirth: I agree. Anything Dave says goes, man.
Lu: So it’s important, he said, to talk about scientific mistakes, gaffes, and goofs. Because science isn’t perfect, but it’s self-correcting. And that’s important. And it’s important for the listeners to appreciate that.
Tirth: Absolutely. Subtle, but important point.
Historic science gaffes quiz
Lu: So Tirth, I have assembled here a list of historic scientific goofs or gaffes as a quiz for you.
Tirth: Very nice.
Lu: And because you’ve done so poorly on our prior quizzes, you’ve…
Tirth: Please, I’ve done quite well. Admirably.
Lu: Including the last one where it was a multiple choice quiz…
Tirth: I did really well…
Lu: You still did terribly…
Tirth: Really well…
Lu: You failed miserably…
Tirth: No…
Lu: Embarrassed everybody.
Tirth: Please.
Lu: And because that quiz had four multiple choices, here I’m giving you a quiz that only has three multiple choices. Even easier.
Tirth: Oh, even better. Okay.
Lu: I did this just to help you out Tirth, not because I couldn’t come up with a fourth answer choice.
Tirth: So generous.
Lu: You ready?
Tirth: I’m ready.
Lu: Historic science gaffe, number one. In 1953, Francis Crick and James Watson published their discovery that the structure of DNA is a double helix. You agree Tirth?
Tirth: I agree.
Lu: This was a monumental discovery for modern biology.
Tirth: Correct.
Lu: In the same year, the brilliant chemist and Nobel Prize Laureate Linus Pauling also published his version for the structure of DNA.
Tirth: He did, yes.
Lu: Instead of a double helix, Tirth, what structure did Pauling propose? Is it A, double rainbow, B, triple helix, or C, he proposed that DNA did not exist, only RNA?
Tirth: Well, I’ll say this, Lu. If he had said C, he would have been really ahead of his times, okay?
Lu: Uh-huh.
Tirth: But the correct answer is B, triple helix.
Lu: Mmmm, that’s correct.
Tirth: Yeah. Actually, I just read a book by Francis Crick like a month ago.
Lu: Oh, where he mentioned Linus Pauling’s gaffe?
Tirth: Yeah, yeah. He talks about all of this. He talks about all of this.
Lu: Wow. Pauling, though, even brilliant chemists and Nobel Prize laureates can make mistakes.
Tirth: Yeah, they can make mistakes, get something wrong sometimes.
Lu: That’s okay. We catch our mistakes very quickly in science.
Tirth: That’s okay, yeah.
Lu: Question number two. In 1868, a giant 10-foot man in the form of a rock was found on a farm in Cardiff, New York. Thousands flocked to see it, believing it to be a fossilized giant despite the supposed fossil having all fleshy parts intact. All fleshy parts, Tirth.
Tirth: I got it.
Lu: And proportional. They were proportional.
Tirth: Oh, nice.
Lu: Geologist John Boyton quickly determined that it was not a fossil, but could be a statue carved by a French Jesuit in the 16th or 17th century in order to impress local Native Americans. What was it actually? A, statue carved by a French Jesuit in the 16th or 17th century to impress local Native Americans. B, the original Lincoln Memorial statue that the sculptor trashed and buried because he just couldn’t get the facial hair right. C, a fake fossil someone created to trick Christians who believed that giants as mentioned in the Bible once existed.
Tirth: Hey, I have a question. I want to clarify something. How tall was this statue again?
Lu: 10 foot.
Tirth: 10 foot, okay. I’m going to go with option A.
Lu: A statue carved by a French Jesuit in the 16th or 17th century to impress local Native Americans, as geologist John Boynton determined? Even though this is a quiz about science gaffes.
Tirth: Well, I thought the gaffe was made by the people who flocked to the thing.
Lu: Yeah, both. They’re both gaffes. You’re wrong. Would you care to guess again?
Tirth: So now I have a 50-50 chance of getting this right.
Lu: Well, no, you already got it wrong. I’m just giving you a chance to save some face.
Tirth: C.
Lu: C is correct.
Tirth: Wow. All right.
Lu: This was the work of George Hull, who was a tobacco tycoonist and also a fan of Darwin.
Tirth: So that’s why he was looking to mock people.
Lu: Yes. He lost an argument. Specifically, he lost an argument to a local reverend, Reverend Turk, about the existence of giants on earth. Unclear to me how he lost that argument, but he did.
Tirth: How is that possible?
Lu: So he wanted to prove how easy… He lost the argument.
Tirth: Wait, wait, so his solution, he told himself, “hey, I lost this argument. I’m going to make a fake giant, bury it and show how these people are idiots.”
Lu: Yes.
Tirth: I see.
Lu: To show that these people will believe anything.
Tirth: I see. Hey, actually, I think there’s three people who made gaffes in this story. The people who fell for this, obviously, but they’re not scientists, so okay. The geologist made a gaffe, and then the rich guy, the guy who lost the argument and then went around this convoluted way, also made a gaffe.
Lu: To get even.
Tirth: This is good. It’s the rare triple error.
Lu: Triple gaffe.
Tirth: Yeah, triple gaffe. Nice.
Lu: Question number three. In 1923, cytogeneticist Theophilus Painter – great name – became the first person to identify the number of chromosomes in human cells. He published his finding confidently, of course. What went wrong? A, instead of human cells, he counted chromosomes from muntjac deer cells. B, he forgot humans are diploid and reported 23 chromosomes instead of 46. C, he miscounted and reported 48 chromosomes.
Tirth: Oh, interesting. What kind of cells are in A? What is that?
Lu: Muntjac deer cells.
Tirth: Muntjac deer?
Lu: Fun fact, muntjac deer only have six or seven chromosomes.
Tirth: Is that right?
Lu: They have giant chromosomes. Yeah, the males have seven, females have six.
Tirth: Okay, I see. I see. Let’s go with that.
Lu: Ah, so you think he reported six or seven chromosomes for the human cell.
Tirth: Yeah, I think so. I think so.
Lu: Confidently?
Tirth: Yeah, confidently.
Lu: Mmm, I wish you were right, Tirth.
Tirth: Oh, I’m not?
Lu: No. A lot of cytogeneticists do study muntjac deer cells, but no, he didn’t make that mistake.
Tirth: Not Theophilus Painter.
Lu: Not Theophilus Painter. Listen to that name.
Tirth: Of course not.
Lu: Listen to that name.
Tirth: I guess that’s true.
Lu: This is a man who would not mistake human cells for muntjac deer cells.
Tirth: I guess he would know his cells. Alright, in that case, I would say he forgot that humans are diploid.
Lu: Wrong. It’s actually C. He miscounted and reported 48 chromosomes. But in his defense, some of the samples he worked with were from Down syndrome patients.
Tirth: There you go. So he didn’t even goof.
Lu: Even then, that’s only one extra chromosome. That’s only 47.
Tirth: Oh yeah, it’s only a trisomy. That’s right. It should be 47, not 48.
Lu: Uh-huh, so he still counted 48.
Tirth: Yeah. All right, all right.
Lu: Question number four. In 2011, scientists at CERN reported that neutrinos travel faster than the speed of light, which since Einstein’s special theory of relativity, we know to be impossible. According to Einstein, nothing can travel faster than the speed of light. The scientists at CERN later realized that they’ve made a mistake. What happened? A, a cable was not fully screwed into their measurement device.
Tirth: Classic.
Lu: B, they forgot to carry the one, when adding up the math. Also classic.
Tirth: Did this in fifth grade.
Lu: C, they accidentally mis-entered the value of the speed of light into their computer.
Tirth: I really hope it’s not C.
Lu: Well, there’s a lot of numbers after the period.
Tirth: So I’ll say this, okay? I have a decent amount of interest in particle physics as like an amateur, like hobbyist, you know? And I’ve done some reading on CERN. I know that CERN is a very long tunnel, circular tunnel. They have a lot of computers, a lot of very sophisticated electronic equipment there. And it seems plausible to me that they would maybe forget to plug in the right cable or cross their wires, you know?
Lu: You would hope not.
Tirth: I think the answer is A.
Lu: That a cable was not fully screwed into the measurement device?
Tirth: That’s right.
Lu: Yeah, you’re correct. Because the fiber cable was not screwed in, it took the signal longer to reach the measuring device.
Tirth: So they thought it was faster than…
Lu: And so they thought the neutrino traveled faster. Crazy, huh?
Tirth: That’s pretty crazy. How long did it take for them to realize this was the case?
Lu: So they reported this in 2011 and they corrected themselves in 2012.
Tirth: Okay. So a year.
Lu: Took almost a year.
Tirth: Well, there’s a lot of wires maybe.
Lu: Question number five. In 1845, dentist Horace Wells, the discoverer of nitrous gas, aka laughing gas as an anesthetic, demonstrated its use for the first time in an amphitheater at the Massachusetts General Hospital by performing a live tooth extraction on a patient. What went wrong?
Tirth: Oh no.
Lu: A, he accidentally administered hydrogen gas instead of nitrous gas and started a huge fireball. B, he didn’t know how long it took for the gas to work and pulled out the tooth too early, causing the patient to scream in pain.
Tirth: Oh my God.
Lu: Or C, the patient, not believing the gas would work, got so scared he bit Wells’ finger, causing Wells, who was not anesthetized, to scream in pain.
Tirth: Hey, have you seen that early YouTube meme video “Charlie bit my finger”?
Lu: Ah, of course.
Tirth: Classic, right? And he’s coming back from a dentist visit.
Lu: Oh, is that right?
Tirth: I think so.
Lu: Ah, and he bit the guy who was not anesthetized.
Tirth: Yeah, yeah.
Lu: Classic.
Tirth: Okay, so this is an interesting question. I could see any of the three things happening. C seems a little unlikely. But A, I think we would have heard. I think it’s B.
Lu: B?
Tirth: Yeah.
Lu: He didn’t know how long it took for the gas to work? And pulled out the tooth too early?
Tirth: Which is a common thing working with gases, right? They’re volatile and…
Lu: You’re correct, Tirth.
Tirth: Nice.
Lu: As a result of this, Wells was labeled a charlatan and a fake. And this is actually a very sad story. His mental health declined. He got addicted to chloroform. He loved his gases; he really did. And while high on chloroform one day, he threw sulfuric acid onto two prostitutes, and he got sent to jail where he died.
Tirth: Oh my god.
Lu: On chloroform. He died while he was high on chloroform.
Tirth: Oh my god. What a way to go.
Lu: But in his defense, laughing gas, nitrous gas does work as an anesthetic.
Tirth: Yeah, very effective.
Lu: But it does not work well on obese patients and alcoholics. The patient he demonstrated this on was both obese and an alcoholic.
Tirth: So maybe he had the right time, but it was just not the…
Lu: Right. And the patient actually later admitted that he does not remember the pain or even when the tooth extraction occurred.
Tirth: Wait, the patient was lying?
Lu: No, he probably felt it at the time, but you know, the anesthetic, the memory was gone.
Tirth: Wow. Okay. So it partially worked.
Lu: It did part of his job.
Tirth: Yeah. He could have just used chloroform, you know.
Lu: Oh, a little bit for you, a little bit for me.
Tirth: Exactly. One for me, two for you.
Lu: Question number six. In 1877, Italian astronomer Giovanni Schiaparelli reported the presence of a network of channels or canals on Mars, leading some to speculate that intelligent life once existed on the planet. What were these canals actually? A, optical illusions caused by low telescope power. B, craters on Mars’ surface. Or C, smudge marks left on Schiaparelli’s telescope after he tried to clean the lens with his fingers.
Tirth: I have heard of this story before. I forgot the exact reason, but I think it’s C.
Lu: C, smudge marks left on his telescope after he tried to clean it with his fingers? His greasy, greasy fingers.
Tirth Yes, yes.
Lu: Common mistake, common beginner’s mistake. Actually, no, he just had a shitty microscope. Low microscope power.
Tirth: So the resolution power was low.
Lu: Yeah.
Tirth: Okay. All right, all right. One for Schiaparelli over me.
Lu: Final question, question number seven. In 1986, Newsweek Magazine, in a cover article titled “The Marriage Crunch”, which was based on a study on college educated women and marriage, wrongly reported which of the following in 1986? A, that single women at age 30 have a 20% chance of ever marrying. B, single women over 35 only have a 5% chance of ever marrying. Or C, single women over 40 have a higher chance of being killed by a terrorist than ever marrying.
Tirth: That’s brutal, man. Oh man, 1986, good times, good times.
Lu: Good times, yeah. Report whatever you want. You don’t want women to go to college…?
Tirth: Right, I think that’s what the angle they were trying to take.
Lu: Say if they’re gonna get killed by a terrorist.
Tirth: Exactly, given that this was a cover story and they were probably…I think it’s C.
Lu: That single woman over the age of 40 have a higher chance of being killed by a terrorist?
Tirth: Yeah.
Lu: You’re correct. It’s actually all of them, all of the above.
Tirth: Oh, all of them are wrong.
Lu: All of them were reported by Newsweek Magazine. And they’re all wrong.
Tirth: Another triple gaffe.
Lu: Triple gaffe. That’s right. This article led to widespread panic at the time.
Tirth: I believe it. Newsweek was very prestigious. It was in the same level of prestige like Time Magazine, you know, until relatively recently. But yeah, so I can see people believing this and going really crazy over it.
Lu: Later, it was shown that 68% of women who were 40 in 1986 eventually married, 68%.
Tirth: Totally. It’s so different from what they quoted, whatever they quoted.
Lu: Newsweek apologized eventually in 2006, 20 years after.
Tirth: I guess better late than never.
Lu: I guess.
Tirth: What’s the statute of limitations on this, you think?
Lu: Less than 20 years.
Tirth: Less than 20 years. Alright, fair enough.
Lu: Maybe two years.
Tirth: Two years. Okay.
Lu: All right. Hey, you know what? I don’t think you did too badly. I think you got probably half of them correct.
Tirth: More than half, please, don’t make a gaffe yourself.
Lu: Fifty percent is already better than one-third. Am I right? So good on you.
Tirth: That’s true.
Lu: Not bad.
Tirth: Thank you.
Lu: All right, Tirth, should we move on to some scientific studies?
Tirth: Let’s do it.
Lu: Alright.
Chimp butt study
Lu: Question for you, Tirth. How do you recognize your friends, your colleagues, your loved ones? What features do you use? How do you go about recognizing someone?
Tirth: I see, I see. We touched upon this subject in one of our previous episodes. The first thing I notice probably, if they’re walking into the room, face, because I can see them.
Lu: Face. More than anything, their face.
Tirth: Yeah, yeah.
Lu: Humans are very good at recognizing people’s faces. It’s been estimated that we can recognize 1000 to 10,000 faces.
Tirth: Unique faces?
Lu: Unique faces.
Tirth: Wow. That is pretty impressive.
Lu: We can also read people’s faces and determine their emotions, their intentions.
Tirth: Mirror or react accordingly…
Lu: And we rely on that to communicate.
Tirth: Very much so. Like love at first sight, right? That’s the whole idea.
Lu: Oh.
Tirth: You look at somebody and immediately you’re like, woo, we’re in.
Lu: Is that what happened with you and your intended?
Tirth: Yeah, yeah, definitely.
Lu: Oh, love at first sight.
Tirth: Love at first sight.
Lu: Will she corroborate?
Tirth: Yeah, 100%. We should have her on. We should have her on one of these days.
Lu: Oh, we should.
Tirth: She’s also a scientist.
Lu: In fact, she’s probably on right now. You just can’t tell because, you know, she doesn’t talk.
Tirth: There’s a third person on this Zoom call.
Lu: She doesn’t like to be on camera. Is that correct?
Tirth: She is shy.
Lu: It’s almost like she’s not there. It’s almost like you don’t even have a fiancée.
Tirth: Well, one might say that, almost.
Lu: I see. Makes sense. Makes a lot of sense.
Tirth: Yeah.
Lu: It also makes sense, Tirth, that we’re not so good at recognizing the faces of animals, right?
Tirth: Definitely not. I would say no.
Lu: Like dogs, cats, because they’re not part of our social circle necessarily.
Tirth: No, but also a lot of dogs look the same.
Lu: Yeah, exactly. That’s what I mean.
Tirth: Like golden retrievers, labradors, you know.
Lu: So I’ve always wondered, Tirth, can animals recognize our faces? Like can a dog recognize my face vs. your face, for instance? Or can a chimp – they’re pretty smart – they’re visual creatures as well, can they recognize our faces? And also, do animals recognize each other’s faces? What do you think?
Tirth: Monkeys, I think they recognize each other’s faces.
Lu: Well, turns out chimps do recognize each other’s faces, but they don’t recognize each other based on face alone. They also recognize each other’s butts.
Tirth: I was going to say, I almost said it, that they also like to sniff butts, so that’s probably a key part of this.
Lu: The appearance of butts, not the smell.
Tirth: Oh, just the appearance?
Lu: The appearance. Yeah. Because Tirth, female chimps have very special butts.
Tirth: They do?
Lu: They do. They have very specific features, and they change in color, size and features, smoothness throughout the ovulatory cycle.
Tirth: Really? So it’s like there is literally, they have like a neon sign saying, “hey, I’m at this stage.”
Lu: Exactly.
Tirth: That’s incredible. That’s incredible.
Lu: Female humans, Tirth, also have special butts. Do you agree? I’m speaking scientifically, of course, scientifically. Very special butts.
Tirth: I don’t know what that means.
Lu: Do you agree?
Tirth: Special in what sense?
Lu: Special. They’re like, they’re unlike any other part of the human body.
Tirth: I mean, that’s by definition, by definition, that’s true. Yes. I’ll say yes.
Lu: More special than the male butt.
Tirth: Possibly.
Lu: Because again – this is all scientific, please Tirth – the female butt accumulates fat. You agree?
Tirth: Yeah. So does the male butt, but yes.
Lu: More so the female butt.
Tirth: That’s true.
Lu: Which might be a sign of fitness in harsh Savannah conditions.
Tirth: Right. They can like store more…
Lu: Evolutionary.
Tirth: Yeah.
Lu: So you agree? You’ve noticed.
Tirth: Well, I don’t know.
Lu: I can tell you’ve noticed.
Tirth: I wouldn’t say I’ve noticed.
Lu: You’ve noticed. Please, Tirth.
Tirth: I think I learned about this in school. I wasn’t aware until med school.
Lu: You’re aware of this.
Tirth: Until med school. That’s where I learned.
Lu: But Tirth, really though, human butts are very dissimilar to chimpanzee butts.
Tirth: Okay. Well, yeah, they don’t light up like neon signs.
Lu: Exactly. That’s probably because we tend to cover up our butts. And also we walk upright. So we don’t get as good of a look at butts. It’s out in public. Is that right?
Tirth: Yeah, because the line of sight is…
Lu: Chimps walk on all fours. So, you know, direct line of sight.
Tirth: They’re hunched over. They’re hunched over.
Lu: Direct eye contact to their butt. Human faces, however, share a lot of similarities with chimp butts.
Tirth: I guess in a way, yeah.
Lu: We, and especially women, have red lips, which signals health. It’s a sign of beauty. Like chimp butts, which are red. They’re both exposed. They’re hairless. They’re symmetrical. They tend to have fairly similar and immediately recognizable features. You know, you know what I’m talking about?
Tirth: And they have one hole.
Lu: Well, we don’t need to get into another discussion on how many holes there are on the human face.
Tirth: Oh, no, there’s two. There’s three.
Lu: Yeah.
Tirth: Actually, nevermind. Cut that out.
Lu: Good to see you’ve learned from our prior discussions.
Tirth: Cut that out.
Lu: And also, they’re both used socially to make judgments about individuals. Human faces also kind of change slightly throughout the ovulatory cycle.
Tirth: Is that right? Wow, didn’t know this.
Lu: That’s correct. So you see, Tirth, and this is a direct quote from the article that I’m about to present, “The human face with its distinct features such as eye whites, eyebrows, red lips, and cheeks, signals emotions, intentions, health, sexual attraction, and as we will show here, shares important features with the primate behind.” Tirth, the human face is essentially the same as the primate, the chimpanzee butt. A few questions then must be asked. Is that right, Tirth?
Tirth: Yes.
Lu: Must be asked.
Tirth: Yes.
Lu: Would you like to ask them?
Tirth: One is, do they have the same smell? That’s the first question that comes to mind.
Lu: Interesting, interesting. Do you think your face smells like a chimp butt?
Tirth: I don’t know. I’ve never smelled a chimp butt. Maybe it smells very fragrant and it has lotion. I don’t know. That’s one question I would ask.
Lu: No Tirth, no Tirth. No.
Tirth: No?
Lu: No, this is ridiculous. The question we should be asking is, do chimps recognize butts the same way humans recognize faces?
Tirth: Oh, of course. Yes, yes.
Lu: Do chimps recognize human butts? And also do humans recognize chimp butts? And also do humans recognize human butts? These are the questions that must be asked. You agree?
Tirth: For complete rigor, yes. You gotta go in every direction.
Lu: The title of the study I’m presenting today is “Getting to the Bottom of Face Processing…
Tirth: I like that.
Lu: Species Specific Inversion Effects for Faces and Behinds in Humans and Chimpanzees.”
Tirth: Nice.
Lu: This is from The Netherlands. It was published in 2016 in the journal PLoS One.
Tirth: Out of all the countries that publish this, The Netherlands is the most appropriate. Nether…lands.
Lu: Oh, interesting. I see. Very good. So, the Face Inversion Effect. So, they mentioned this. This is the effect where we’re pretty good at recognizing upright faces. We’re actually much worse at recognizing upside down faces compared to other objects. If we show someone a picture of a house, they can recognize the upside down or upright.
Tirth: Distorted or whatever. Yeah, faces is hard.
Lu: But the face, it’s harder, much harder. The idea behind why that is, is that we don’t recognize individual features on faces, like the nose or the eye, but we recognize them together as an ensemble.
Tirth: Like a gestalt of it.
Lu: Yeah, we recognize the configuration, the overall configuration of the different features. And when that’s distorted with an upside down face, we have a much harder time. So, the setup here is they showed both humans and chimps different photos of different body parts, faces and butts and also feet as control from women and from female chimps.
Tirth: Okay.
Lu: So, they showed them one picture. It could be any body part…
Tirth: From either a human or a chimp.
Lu: From either a human female or a chimp female.
Tirth: Got it.
Lu: A photo of their face, let’s say. They showed that for like two seconds. And then they quickly showed them two other pictures. One is of the same body part from the same individual. Just a different picture, maybe with different lighting, different angle. The other one is a face from a different individual. And they’re asked to quickly identify the matching picture.
Tirth: Right after that?
Lu: Yeah.
Tirth: Got it. And then the people who are being shown these pictures, are they males, females or both?
Lu: Good question. So, for the human participants, they recruited 49 female students aged 18 to 28 and 58 male students aged 19 to 41. These students were from the University of Amsterdam. And they recruited them from like an online portal for recruiting students. Except they also mentioned that when they wanted more male students because they didn’t recruit enough, they simply approached them in the hallway.
Tirth: No…
Lu: How do you think that went? I assume they were like, “hey, hey you. You want to look at some butts? Come in here, we got butts. We got human butts, we got chimp butts.”
Tirth: “Got them all. And feet. Bonus, we got feet.”
Lu: “We got feet as well if you’re into that.” They also noted that the participants must be 18 years old to participate, for obvious reasons, and they were awarded 5 euros for participating.
Tirth: 5 euros. That’s it?
Lu: Well, Tirth, you probably would have done it for free.
Tirth: Some people may pay for this. Forget getting paid. People may pay to do this.
Lu: So the photographs they used, there were, like I said, of faces, butts, and feet of three female humans, Caucasian females, age 28 to 29, and also three chimpanzee females. The chimps were Japanese. They lived in the-
Tirth: Are they different from other chimps?
Lu: I don’t know. They’re Japanese. They lived in the Kumamoto Primate Sanctuary in Japan. They noted that the picture of the human butts were taken at the same angle as those of the chimp butts.
Tirth: Nice.
Lu: So use your imagination as to what that means.
Tirth: By the way, does this paper have these pictures in there or anywhere? Just for educational, scientific purposes.
Lu: Please, Tirth. I did not look. Please, Tirth. You know me. I’m a classy guy…
Tirth: I have to wait for the link.
Lu: I wouldn’t look for this…
Tirth: Just to verify. You know what they say, trust but verify.
Lu: I’m kidding, of course. Of course, I looked, Tirth. Because I’m a good scientist. You know me, I like to look at all the data of every paper. I look at all the data. Everything.
Tirth: Yeah.
Lu: No, they do not provide the pictures of the female human butts. They did provide pictures of the female butts, if you want to see those, I will gladly send them to you.
Tirth: I want to see any material I can to verify the study.
Lu: Good. Good scientist. Excellent scientist.
Tirth: Great scientist.
Lu: Oh, also important: the photos were presented in full color at a size of 2264 x 1584 pixels.
Tirth: Wow. It’s very high res. That’s great resolution.
Lu: Very high res.
Tirth: Great resolution.
Lu: So for the matching task, the participants sat in a dimly lit room in front of a computer, and they were told to match the pictures as quickly as possible.
Tirth: So sorry, just to recap, they would flash one body part in front of you, right?
Lu: From a chimp, or from a human, feet, butt, face…
Tirth: And then immediately, like very quickly after that…
Lu: Immediately after
Tirth: They would flash another body part from that same animal or human?
Lu: No, no, same body part.
Tirth: Oh, same body part.
Lu: Exact same body part from the same person.
Tirth: From a different angle?
Lu: From potentially – it’s essentially the same angle, but the angle could be slightly different because they took it again.
Tirth: Okay. And then something else. And then they had to quickly match if they just saw that or not.
Lu: So let’s say they showed a picture of a woman’s face in the first picture.
Tirth: Yeah.
Lu: That went away. Then they showed two pictures, one of which is the same woman’s face, just a different picture. The other one is a different woman’s face, but it’s still going to be the face.
Tirth: Got it. Got it. And are they like side by side or one after the other?
Lu: Side by side.
Tirth: Got it. Okay.
Lu: So these are human participants, more than 100 of them. How many percent of them do you think got the human face matching correctly?
Tirth: I would say basically close to 100%. So I would say like 92%.
Lu: Yeah, 95%. What about human butts? How good were they at matching human butts? Pictures of human butts to the same individual.
Tirth: This gets interesting. I would say they’re still pretty good, not as good as faces. So 70%.
Lu: 93%.
Tirth: 93%? Holy smokes.
Lu: Very good at recognizing butts.
Tirth: Butts and faces. Wow.
Lu: The human foot was lower at 86%. What about the chimp face? How do the humans do on matching chimp faces?
Tirth: Chimp faces look very similar, man. I’ve looked at chimps and they all look the same to me.
Lu: Oh, wow. Racist.
Tirth: So I’m going to say again…
Lu: Racist.
Tirth: Please, please. How can I be racist? It’s not even a race. It’s a species.
Lu: Whoa. Now that’s racist. That is racist.
Tirth: No, how is that racist?
Lu: That’s the most racist thing I’ve ever heard.
Tirth: No. Chimps are a different species.
Lu: Most racist thing I’ve ever heard.
Tirth: They are literally a different species.
Lu: Wow.
Tirth: How can I be racist?
Lu: How do you know that?
Tirth: That’s what biology says.
Lu: Well, the definition is if they cannot produce viable offspring. Have you done the experiment?
Tirth: I haven’t. I haven’t.
Lu: It sounds like you’ve done the experiment.
Tirth: One such definition.
Lu: Anyways, chimp face.
Tirth: I would still say it’s like 65%.
Lu: Yeah, 74% actually.
Tirth: Okay, higher than I thought.
Lu: Chimp butt?
Tirth: 80%. I’m sensing a theme.
Lu: 80%? Close, 73%. The same as the chimp face.
Tirth: Wow.
Lu: And then chimp foot, 88%
Lu: Human foot was only 86%.
Tirth: So it’s a little better.
Lu: They were better at matching chimp foot.
Tirth: Wow.
Lu: All right. So now they got some chimps to do the same thing. There were five chimps. They were from Kyoto University. There were four females, one male. Criticism, the chimps were not at least 18 years of age. A few of them were 12 years old.
Tirth: Oh no. Oh no.
Lu: Yeah. Criticism number two. So what do you think? How accurate were chimps at recognizing human faces?
Tirth: I think they would be pretty accurate.
Lu: Let me remind you, for humans, it was 95%.
Tirth: 95%. I would say chimps are, let’s say in the high 80s, 87%.
Lu: Close. 81%. What about the human butt?
Tirth: Human butt I think it will be higher because chimps are so used to looking at butts all the time. I think that’s 90%.
Lu: Presumably they don’t see a lot of human butts.
Tirth: I think it translates over pretty well. So I would say 90%.
Lu: Wow.
Tirth: 90%.
Lu: You’re right. 89%.
Tirth: There you go.
Lu: Which is comparable to humans. Humans were only 93% for human butts.
Tirth: Yes.
Lu: Pretty good. Human feet, they were 73% correct, lower than humans. What about chimp face? How are chimps at identifying chimp faces? Humans were 74%, correct?
Tirth: And then chimps with human faces were 81%?
Lu: Was 81%.
Tirth: Okay. So chimps with chimp faces probably in that range, 84%.
Lu: Actually 71%.
Tirth: Wow. Hey, who’s racist now? Who’s racist now?
Lu: It was both lower than their ability to recognize human faces and also lower than humans ability to recognize chimp faces.
Tirth: Yeah, who’s racist now?
Lu: Please, Tirth. What about chimp butts?
Tirth: Oh, that’s, that’s gotta be in the human to human face range. So 93%.
Lu: No, chimps were only able to recognize chimp butts with 72% accuracy.
Tirth: Oh, that’s worse than chimps with human feet.
Lu: Worse than chimps with human feet and chimps with human butt. They recognize human butts with 89% accuracy.
Tirth: Even though we assume that they probably have not looked at them in human butts before.
Lu: Have not seen naked human butts.
Tirth: Whereas they are looking at chimp butts every day.
Lu: Yes. Yes. And then chimp feet was only 72% correct.
Tirth: What is happening in that chimp enclosure, man?
Lu: But, but the main point of this paper was to look at the inversion effect. If you invert the faces, invert the butt, does the recognition accuracy go down a lot? So what they found is that for humans, you get this inversion effect with human faces, but you don’t get it with anything else.
Tirth: So not butts.
Lu: Humans, still pretty good with butts, even when it’s upside down. Which, you known, makes sense. Which way is upright?
Tirth: I mean, it’s mostly symmetric. It’s mostly symmetric, so you can rotate it.
Lu: Oh. For chimps, they show the inversion effect with chimp butts only, nothing else. So chimps recognize chimp butts the same way as humans recognize human faces: configuratively. They recognize the configuration of the features.
Tirth: Uh-huh.
Lu: But criticisms though, they only have photos from three women and three chimps, so that’s a relatively low number of pictures. And also, they acknowledge this as well, but they probably should have had more chimp participants. That would have been helpful.
Tirth: It’s hard.
Lu: I have a question, Tirth. So humans, as we mentioned, we’re really good at seeing faces. We’re so good, in fact, that we see faces in things that don’t have faces in them.
Tirth: That’s right. Jesus in bread.
Lu: Jesus in toast. We see faces in clouds, in our lattes, on the sides of mountains, on electrical outlets – the two eyes and the mouth.
Tirth: Everywhere.
Lu: This is called face pareidolia.
Tirth: Yeah.
Lu: So my question is, Tirth, do chimps have butt pareidolia? Do they see butts everywhere?
Tirth: Where would they see it? Like in balloons or?
Lu: On a piece of toast. Maybe they’re looking at pieces of toast and be like, oh, hey, that’s Jamie’s butt. I see Jamie’s butt on that toast.
Tirth: Someone should try this. Yeah, that’s a great question.
Lu: Food for thought. All right, Tirth, what you got?
Clown studies
Tirth: All right, Lu. I actually have two studies today.
Lu: Oh, very good.
Tirth: But they’re very, very related. Before I get into this, I want your opinion. What is your opinion on clowns?
Lu: Okay, okay, clowns? It’s a good question. Well, I know a lot of people are afraid of clowns. They have a fear of clowns.
Tirth: In fact, do you know what it’s called?
Lu: Clownophobia.
Tirth: No, it’s close. It’s Coulro-phobia.
Lu: Koolro?
Tirth: Coulro, C-O-U-L…
Lu: Is that Latin for clowns?
Tirth: I don’t know. I didn’t look into it too much. I know we’ve talked about phobias on this podcast before.
Lu: Okay. That’s a pretty common phobia, I think.
Tirth: Yeah, you’re right. Yeah.
Lu: I don’t think I have that.
Tirth: You don’t have that? Okay.
Lu: I don’t think I have that.
Tirth: Are you indifferent to them?
Lu: I also don’t have a particular positive feeling towards clowns. Yeah, I would say I’m indifferent. I think it’s because I’ve never interacted with a clown in real life.
Tirth: Yeah.
Lu: Outside of you, of course.
Tirth: I was going to say…
Lu: I should make sure…
Tirth: Thank you for the correction. Yeah, nice correction.
Lu: In fact, in med school, weren’t you the captain of the juggling team?
Tirth: Yeah, that was me.
Lu: Remember?
Tirth: Yeah.
Lu: We had a juggling club, right?
Tirth: We did. I was not the captain, but yes. Dave Rubins…this is true…this is actually true.
Lu: This is true. Look, people think I make shit up on this podcast. I do not.
Tirth: No, no, this is actually true.
Lu: Tirth was on the juggling team.
Tirth: Dave Rubins, and then I think Allan Jiang was in this too.
Lu: Of course. Why wouldn’t he? Why wouldn’t he? And also remind me – this is also true – you got a unicycle, didn’t you? During med school?
Tirth: I almost did.
Lu: You almost did.
Tirth: I wanted to. I actually did my research.
Lu: You told me many, many times that you were really, highly considering getting a unicycle.
Tirth: Yes, this is all true. Even into my PhD – even in my PhD years in the lab, I really, really… Only because when I was in college at UCLA, there was a guy who used to unicycle around campus. It looked quite cool. He would wear a suit, you know?
Lu: I’m sure to you, he looked very cool.
Tirth: No to everybody. Everybody was like, wow, look at that guy. I thought the ladies, of course, the ladies love a unicyclist.
Lu: Oh, I’m sure they do. So Tirth, safe to say, you don’t have a fear of clowns. Is that correct?
Tirth: No, I don’t have a fear of clowns, no.
Lu: Very good. I’m glad we established that.
Tirth: Yes. But like you, and I suspect like a lot of other people, I’m pretty indifferent to them.
Lu: Despite being one yourself as we’ve just established.
Tirth: But you know, there’s different levels of being a clown, right?
Lu: Uh-huh.
Tirth: Like the most obvious, the most out there version is a clown that puts on the makeup with the big honking nose, you know, the big floppy hat, the shoes. That’s a bit much.
Lu: I see.
Tirth: But you know, kids though, what do you think? You think kids like clowns?
Lu: I think some of them maybe. But I think a lot of them also are afraid of clowns.
Tirth: Yeah, spot on. I agree with that. I think kids may like clowns because they’re a little out there. There’s a lot of colors. They do tricks. Everybody likes to look at tricks, right?
Lu: Yeah, they’re entertaining for a kid, I’m sure.
Tirth: They can be entertaining. Okay, so that’s clowns in general. Now, if I were to ask you, other than entertainment, can you think of any constructive roles for clowns?
Lu: Other than entertainment?
Tirth: Yeah. And then let me narrow it down for you. You and I are both physicians nominally. So within, let’s say within our day jobs, like the field of healthcare, can you think of any roles for them?
Lu: Oh, in healthcare?
Tirth: Yeah.
Lu: Well, they can cheer kids up.
Tirth: Yeah, exactly.
Lu: And I think there probably are hospitals that employ clowns.
Tirth: Yes, that’s exactly right.
Lu: And also you, you clearly have a role in healthcare systems…
Tirth: Kids love me.
Lu: Despite being a clown.
Tirth: Kids love me. Listen.
Lu: So living proof that clowns have a role in healthcare.
Tirth: Kids love me.
Lu: Okay. Sure.
Tirth: Anyway as you may guess, that’s the subject of the work I’m about to present today.
Lu: Oh, I see.
Tirth: Specifically, this is about the role of clowns in the surgical setting.
Lu: Okay. Interesting.
Tirth: So as you may realize, many adults get really anxious right before it’s time to go into the operating room when they’re about to put you down or, you know, put you under with anesthesia. So kids are obviously very stressed out.
Lu: Yeah, everybody probably gets anxious.
Tirth: Yeah, everybody, exactly. So kids especially. And so the key question being addressed by the two studies today is can clowns help reduce the anxiety that children feel right before they go under?
Lu: Okay. Good, good, good.
Tirth: The first paper is called “Clown Doctors as a Treatment for Preoperative Anxiety in Children: a randomized prospective study.” This was published in the year 2005 in the journal Pediatrics.
Lu: Oh, good journal.
Tirth: Great journal. These authors are all based out of Florence, Italy. And like I said, the question they’re asking is kids who are about to undergo surgery, they’re really anxious. Their parents might be anxious too. Can you use hospital clowns? So these are physicians or other staff who are also… can work as clowns. Can you use them to reduce the anxiety?
Lu: So they didn’t go out and get and hire actual clowns.
Tirth: Not in this setting, no.
Lu: They put doctors in clown costumes.
Tirth: Yes.
Lu: To see if that helped.
Tirth: Exactly. Yes.
Lu: Very creative.
Tirth: So they chose 40 children between the ages of 5 and 12 divided into two groups.
Lu: These were kids who were actually going to get surgery?
Tirth: Yes. They also specified that these children are getting minor procedures, like their tonsils taken out, stuff like that, you know?
Lu: Okay.
Tirth: They also chose kids who had never had surgery or anesthesia before, so they’re not exposed to it. And they made sure to screen out kids who had a phobia of clowns.
Lu: Oh, very good. How did they do that?
Tirth: They asked the parents, does their child have a phobia of clowns?
Lu: Not bring in a clown and see if the kid screams?
Tirth: That would be a much more rigorous way of doing it, but no, they didn’t do that.
Lu: Yeah, more rigorous. Much more rigorous.
Tirth: So they split them into two groups, like I said, one group was the control group, so this group only had their parent with them. One parent was allowed to be with the child.
Lu: Before surgery?
Tirth: Right before surgery. So they’re in the waiting room, then they wheel the kid into the OR, and then they induce anesthesia where they put the mask on.
Lu: Okay, and they had a parent with them?
Tirth: They had a parent with them.
Lu: Did they say were these parents clowns though? Because that’s important.
Tirth: No, it doesn’t say
Lu: Because that’s a potential confounding factor.
Tirth: No, that’s true, that’s true.
Lu: Maybe the parents were clowns.
Tirth: They did not address this. They did not address this. That’s a good one. Wow, what a great scientist.
Lu: Uh-huh.
Tirth: The experimental group had a parent with them, and they had a clown with them.
Lu: And a clown?
Tirth: Yeah, and a clown.
Lu: Who’s also the surgeon? Or no? Or it’s a different guy?
Tirth: No, no. That would be even better.
Lu: It’s another doctor?
Tirth: It doesn’t say, I think it’s a hospital worker, though. It’s not a separate clown group.
Lu: I see. Again, maybe you could have done this.
Tirth: Yeah, I’d be honored to, you know? If I can bring joy to a child, what better honor can there be?
Lu: Oh, wow. Noble.
Tirth: Okay, so that’s the setting. In order to measure anxiety, they had the children fill out a questionnaire in the waiting room, and once they were wheeled into the operating room. So they had two separate scores.
Lu: Okay, so they’re being wheeled into the operating room, they see a clown waiting for them by the operating table…
Tirth: No, no, the clown goes with them. The clown is with them in the waiting room.
Lu: That’s more soothing than entering an operating room…
Tirth: No, no, no, not just waiting there.
Lu: Seeing a clown holding a scalpel by the operating table. That will not ease anybody’s anxiety.
Tirth: No, no.
Lu: Okay, the clown goes with them.
Tirth: Yeah. Then they also have the parents fill out a questionnaire because they also wanted to measure the parents’ anxiety.
Lu: Oh okay.
Tirth: They had the surgeon and the surgical staff fill out a question there saying, is this helpful? Would you continue this?
Lu: Is this helpful to the surgeon to have a clown?
Tirth: Yeah. Okay. Then the clowns fill out a questionnaire too.
Lu: Did they ask the scrub nurse though, that’s the most important person.
Tirth: No, I know. We’ve established this. The top dog.
Lu: The scrub nurse would not have been okay with the clown being in there.
Tirth: Top dog.
Lu: The clown is just making balloons, blowing up balloons.
Tirth: Breaking the sterile field…
Lu: Taking out hundreds of handkerchiefs, hundreds of handkerchiefs, dropping them on the ground.
Tirth: They lose count of their surgical stuff. Oh man. Then they had the clowns fill out a questionnaire saying, did the kids like you? Did they look interested? Were they smiling? How much were they doing this?
Lu: Well, I think they should have used an outside observer to answer these questions.
Tirth: Yeah, I think they should have recorded videos and have someone do that.
Lu: I think the clowns are a little biased.
Tirth: Yeah, I agree.
Lu: Okay, okay. I’m intrigued though.
Tirth: What do you think?
Lu: What do I think? Did the anxiety in the kids go down and in the parents?
Tirth: Yeah.
Lu: I’m going to say in the kids, I’d say a lot of them probably felt less anxious when the clown is there.
Tirth: Yeah, exactly.
Lu: But I would say the parents did not feel less anxious when the clown is there.
Tirth: Yeah, yeah.
Lu: They probably felt more anxious.
Tirth: Yeah.
Lu: Were the parents told what was going to happen beforehand?
Tirth: Yeah, they had their consent, everything.
Lu: It wasn’t a surprise clown?
Tirth: No.
Lu: Who just showed up? which if I was a parent, would not have made me feel that ease.
Tirth: No, I’d be very concerned. So this is great and all. Then you may wonder, how come hospitals don’t have clowns all the time? You and I both rotated on pediatrics. We’ve been inside some ORs. I don’t remember ever seeing a clown in a hospital.
Lu: Well, everybody else sees a clown. Let’s just say that everybody else can see the clown.
Tirth: True. Okay, besides me.
Lu: When you don’t see the clown, when you don’t see the clown in the room, you’re the clown. You’re the clown.
Tirth: Fair enough.
Lu: Remember that.
Tirth: Yeah. Remember how they had the surgical staff fill out a questionnaire too?
Lu: Oh, yeah. Was this clown helpful?
Tirth: If they found it helpful, or if it was a disturbance? Most of them thought that the clown was a disturbance in the OR.
Lu: Yeah, yeah they did. Why would they not?
Tirth: Only 8% said it was very favorable to have the clown there.
Lu: Wait, there’s one thing I didn’t ask, which is, was the clown doing stuff?
Tirth: Oh yes.
Lu: Was he like making an balloon and was he just standing there, Hands folded?
Tirth: No, no, no, he’s not standing there. He’s distracting the kid. They have a bunch of things they were doing. So they would do magic tricks, they would make noises, they would pull out like handkerchiefs…
Lu: Again, completely breaking sterile field every time. Those handkerchiefs were not sterilized, I think we can assume that.
Tirth: So that’s the concern they had.
Lu: We can assume that.
Tirth: So, you know, when they asked them, are you favorable with the activity continuing in the OR, 72% of the staff said no.
Lu: Yeah.
Tirth: So, clowns may be good, but maybe not a good consistent presence in the OR. Maybe they’re only good to be in the waiting room.
Lu: But did their presence affect the outcome of the surgery?
Tirth: It doesn’t say.
Lu: What are the rates of take backs for the clown?
Tirth: Or complication rate.
Lu: What are the rates of infections?
Tirth: Yeah, complication rate. Exactly.
Lu: Yeah.
Tirth: Okay. So then, you may wonder, well, Tirth, don’t we have anxiolytics? Medications that can reduce anxiety?
Lu: Beta blockers, stuff like that.
Tirth: Yeah. Or even more powerful than benzodiazepines.
Lu: Oooh.
Tirth: Like Midazolam or Versed is a very common anxiolytic.
Lu: Percocet, maybe. Very powerful. Very good anxiolytic.
Tirth: No, that’s for pain. That’s for pain.
Lu: But, you know, very good anxiolytic.
Tirth: Okay. So then the next question, another research group asked is that, oh, we know that the presence of clown is better than no clowns being present, but is it better than a drug? Midazolam specifically.
Lu: Oh.
Tirth: So that’s the second study. The title is, “Clowns for the Prevention of Preoperative Anxiety in Children, a Randomized Control Trial.” Basically identical title to the first one.
Lu: Okay.
Tirth: This paper was published in the year 2008, so three years after the first one, in the journal Pediatric Anesthesia.
Lu: Also a good journal.
Tirth: Great journal. Great journal. So now they had, they actually divided the kids up into three groups. One group got nothing. They just had a parent with them. So no clown, no midazolam, nothing.
Lu: Wow, okay.
Tirth: The second group got midazolam and a parent. And then the third group was a clown and a parent.
Lu: Okay.
Tirth: They had them do the same questionnaire, same everything.
Lu: Same age, like five to 12?
Tirth: These are a little younger, 3 to 8.
Lu: Oh, okay.
Tirth: So a little on the younger side. So what do you think in this setup? Let’s just compare clown versus midazolam. Do you think it was better, same or worse at reducing anxiety?
Lu: I would say given the prior findings, I would say the clown probably did as well as the midazolam.
Tirth: Not just that, but they actually had a better effect.
Lu: Wow.
Tirth: Just prior, in the waiting room before going into the OR.
Lu: Okay, wow.
Tirth: But then as soon as they came into the OR, the midazolam and the clowns were… both groups were about the same.
Lu: Oh, okay. So clowns, pretty good as anxiolytics.
Tirth: Yeah, Ronald McDonald, probably the most famous clown in the world.
Lu: Very funny guy. I met him once.
Tirth: Oh, you did?
Lu: Yeah, very funny. Great guy.
Tirth: What did he do that was funny?
Lu: You know, he did a little bit of this, a little bit of that. You know? Very funny, very funny guy.
Tirth: All right. Good, good, good. You know, yet another success story. Ronald McDonald.
Lu: Good guy.
Tirth: Please give us money.
Lu: Very good. Anything else?
Tirth: No, that’s it.
What did you learn today
Lu: All right. Well, good stuff. That brings us to the end of another episode of Recreational Science. Tirth, what did you learn today?
Tirth: Lu, I learned today two things, actually, that someone should go look for a butt neuron in the brains. You know how we have Jennifer Aniston neurons?
Lu: Oh, the single neuron that recognizes a butt.
Tirth: I think that’s one thing.
Lu: You think chimps have those probably?
Tirth: Yeah, I think so.
Lu: For specific butts. For Jennifer Aniston’s butt, they definitely have…
Tirth: Yes, yes. And then the other thing is, when people say someone has a – there’s an insult called butt face, you know, kids will call each other butt faces all the time. I don’t think that’s an insult at all.
Lu: Not that bad.
Tirth: I think I’m rethinking it. I think it’s a compliment.
Lu: Especially if it’s a chimp butt. Chimp butt face.
Tirth: It means you have a very distinctive butt. What did you learn today?
Lu: I learned today that my anesthesiologist friend, who went to four years of undergrad, four years of med school, four years residency and another year of fellowship. Instead of doing that, they should have just went to Clown College.
Tirth: Yeah, exactly.
Lu: It’s a two-month course. Clown College. Very cost-effective, very time-efficient.
Tirth: They could have started making money a lot sooner.
Lu: Exactly.
Tirth: And still gotten the same amount of goodwill.
Lu: Absolutely. And pissed off the scrub nurse, just like we did in med school.
Tirth: Just like the anesthesiologist do, also. Very good.
Lu: Very good. All right. Thank you guys for listening to our show. We really hope you enjoyed it.
Tirth: And if you like listening to us, please give us five stars, leave us a good review, tell a friend and subscribe to us on whatever platform you use to listen to us.
Lu: All right, guys. See you in the next episode.
Tirth: All right. Take care.
